Wipe the sand from your eyes, because this week Princess and Tessa dive into the world of the Dreaming -- they're talking The Sandman y'all. GET. READY. They break down all the sandy lore, swoon over Morpheus, and even sit down with the creator Neil Gaiman himself to talk about what it was like to finally bring this beloved comic series to life. Massive !!SPOILER WARNING!! for the entire first season of The Sandman -- go watch it and we'll be here when you get back.
Wipe the sand from your eyes, because this week Princess and Tessa dive into the world of the Dreaming -- they're talking The Sandman y'all. GET. READY. They break down all the sandy lore, swoon over Morpheus, and even sit down with the creator Neil Gaiman himself to talk about what it was like to finally bring this beloved comic series to life.
Massive !!SPOILER WARNING!! for the entire first season of The Sandman -- go watch it and we'll be here when you get back.
Netflix Geeked - Ep13-The Sandman-MIX_V2.mp3
CLIP: [00:00:01] GEEKED.
PRINCESS: [00:00:03] What's up my dreamers, doubters, nonbelievers. I am Princess Weekes.
TESSA: [00:00:08] And my name is Tessa Netting.
PRINCESS: [00:00:10] And you are listening to the Geeked podcast, your weekly energy boost of the worlds fandoms and stories you love all in an hour or less. Your Money Back Guaranteed.
TESSA: [00:00:22] Each week we're going to skim the surface of what's popularni geek culture and Deep dive into the lore of a Netflix world bigger than our own.
PRINCESS: [00:00:30] And tonight, we're off to never, never land the world of Sandman. And I could not be more excited if I tried. And I'm trying so hard right now and I'm so hype.
TESSA: [00:00:41] This is the biggest world of all. The ultimate world, the world of our dreams. And I can't wait for this and for our discussion. And this is just the first installment of our Sandman Deep Dive, and we're going to be continuing our conversations in a few weeks. So don't randomly start listening to another podcast if you want to know how our Sandman thoughts conclude.
PRINCESS: [00:01:06] Also, we've got to sit down with the man himself, the author of The Sandman, Neil Gaiman. The Baddest is the, you know, the modern day Orpheus.
TESSA: [00:01:19] The creator of all worlds, God himself.
PRINCESS: [00:01:23] Just like literally a minor deity. It's so exciting.
TESSA: [00:01:27] Yeah. We're going to be super chill about this, and we're not. We're freaking out. We're so excited to be talking to him and to just talk about the Sandman.
PRINCESS: [00:01:41] All right, what's got us geeked is just Sandman. We're all about Sandman. And we don't even want to. We don't even want to prolong the, the experience, the antici...pation. Let's just get right into that good old man sand.
TESSA: [00:01:54] I don't care about anything else this week.
PRINCESS: [00:01:57] After San Diego Comic-Con, Tessa is tired. She just wants to focus on one thing and one thing only. Sandman.
TESSA: [00:02:03] Sleeping and Sandman.
PRINCESS: [00:02:05] Today we talk with the one, the only. Mr. Neil Gaiman, creator of the Sandman himself. And boy, I got to tell you, the sweetest voice in the market.
TESSA: [00:02:19] Hello, Mr. Neil Gaiman. Thank you so much for joining us. It is an honor to speak to you. Your new show, The Sandman, is now streaming on Netflix and it's finally been adapted for the screen after all these years. I am so excited for everyone to see it since the Sandman is all about dreaming. I have a question. Do you remember your dreams?
NEIL: [00:02:43] I, what I tend to do is remember my dreams when I wake up and go, Oh, that was such a cool dream. And I grab my phone, open Google keep and just type and then drift off back to sleep or whatever, or get up and start my day. I do that incredibly rarely. What I normally do is wake up, go. Whoa. That was the dream. That was the kind of dream you don't forget. Whoa. And the ideas in there, they were so great. And that thing that happened, I'll never forget that. And about 4 minutes later, I'm cleaning my teeth and going, I had a dream didn't I?
TESSA: [00:03:25] Are they mainly good or bad? Like, do you have good dreams or scary nightmares?
NEIL: [00:03:30] I used to have nightmares when I was a little kid, I had nightmares. When I was a teenager, I had nightmares, when I was in my twenties I had nightmares. And then something happened when I started writing Sandman. And whenever I'd have a nightmare, really good nightmare, I would wake up so happy and excited and I'd write it down like, Oh, I can use that. Oh, that was so great. And that. And then they stopped and my only theory I could come up with was that the people whose job it was to send me nightmares were so incredibly disappointed by my reaction that they just gave up and went home.
PRINCESS: [00:04:12] You broke them into submission, was just like, No, I'm going to flip it and make this content, make it art.
NEIL: [00:04:19] I was so thrilled. Like Nightmares were the best. It's like, oh my gosh, yes, I'm being chased through a castle by a monster with face like spaghetti. This is so awesome!
PRINCESS: [00:04:29] Sandman is a masterpiece. It was one of my first comics. What is your favorite part of the legacy of the Sandman story? Like, what are you most proud of? What it has built as a as a legacy, as a product.
NEIL: [00:04:45] What I'm what I'm most proud of is the people who come up to me who are doing great comics now who say, Oh yeah, Sandman was the first comic I read that made me go, This is literature. That made me go, Oh, I want to do that. And the fact that I, you know, I've spawned people who I don't know and they read Sandman and went, Oh, I didn't know you could do this. And some of them and they are old comics people. You know, Susanna Clarke coming up to me and saying that it was reading Sandman that made her go, I didn't know you could do this. I want to do this. And she became a writer. And that's where we got, you know, Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell from a -- it's there's a wonderful feeling to that.
TESSA: [00:05:34] That is wild I can't even imagine. If you were a part of the endless which sibling would you be closest to and why?
NEIL: [00:05:45] Oh, I like that question. Somebody somebody before this afternoon asked, you know, just which member of the endless would you be? And that was it, that's a different question, because, yeah, who would I be closest to? I hope I would be closest to death.
PRINCESS: [00:06:05] Don't we all.
NEIL: [00:06:05] Because she's--
TESSA: [00:06:06] Mm hmm.
NEIL: [00:06:07] She's nice. She was imagined to be nice. I created her going, who do I want - I'd met in literature a lot of incarnations of death.
TESSA: [00:06:17] Right.
NEIL: [00:06:18] They're all cold. They're implacable. Some of them are skeletal. None of them are nice. And all I can think of is that I would like somebody there when I die. Somebody to say, you know, the blue bottle contained the alcohol, the green bottle contained the prosec-acid. And honestly, you should have gone for the blue bottle. I really I wanted somebody nice. I wanted somebody reassuring. I wanted somebody who you'd fall in love with a little bit. I was reminded of a story I heard when I was about 12 that I think maybe a Kabala story of the Angel of Death. And the idea was The Angel of Death is so beautiful that when you see them, your eyes are, you fall in love so hard that your eyes up, your soul is pulled out of your body through your eyes. And I just remembered that and I thought, that's such a great yeah, I could go with that. If you gotta give somebody a death, let me fall in love so hard that my soul wants to go off with them. That's beautiful. So that was sort of part of the inspiration for death, and that also was part of the joy and the terror of trying to cast death in Sandman, because you're trying to find somebody who can embody that, who you just would like to spend time with.
PRINCESS: [00:07:50] And I think Kirby does an amazing job with that. She is so ethereal. And I can say personally, when I had a loss in my family, I reread the high cost of living as like a comfort reading it really like your version of death is immensely comforting even when you're in the pitfalls of grief.
NEIL: [00:08:06] You know, it was really weird for me the other day at Comic-Con because I took Kirby aside and I said, Look, we have to have a little serious conversation that's a bit more serious than, you know, showrunner to actor normally is. Because for the last 30 years, 30 something, 33 years, 34 years now, people have been coming up to me and saying, I just wanted to tell you, your version of death, thinking of your version of death got me through the death of my child. Got me through the death of my parent or my brother or my lover, my friend. This person who mattered to me died. And I thought about your death being there for them. And that helped. I said, and I've been listening to that and trying to be present for those people and saying thank you and I'm glad it helped. And you're going to get that now once they've seen you on screen and the sound of her wings for the rest of your life, probably long after I'm dead, people are going to come up to you and just say, you know, this thing happened to me and this person died. And thinking of your version of death being there for them made it okay for me. And you're going to have to be there for them and say the right thing. And Kirby is really sensible and she's good and she's lovely and she has broad shoulders, and I think she can carry that. But it was actually something that I found myself saying that was, you know, much, much darker and bigger than you normally wind up having to talk to somebody about.
PRINCESS: [00:09:45] Absolutely. And yet so the point of that character. Well, to lighten things up and also we know you need to like go relax because it's been a long press tour since we are a geek podcast. Other than working on Sandman and doing other stuff, what sort of things in the geek nerd space are you excited about? Like what makes you feel like that nerdy kid inside right now?
NEIL: [00:10:06] Oh, definitely Wellington Paranormal makes me- sends me just. I just completely flip out at Wellington Paranormal. It makes me happy, you know? And I love that it exists in the sort of the What We Do in the Shadows-verse. And every now and then it intersects and you go, Yeah, that's why he's working the blood bank or whatever. And I think part of that is because I got to spend a lot of the last few years in New Zealand and I got to really sort of appreciate not only the paranormal ness of it, but also the New Zealand ness of it. And so both sides of that. So that's probably my favorite geek thing. And I obviously I love What We Do in the Shadows, but Wellington Paranormal has my heart.
TESSA: [00:10:58] I love that, that's amazing -- okay real quick if you happened to be attending the serial convention, what would your serial killer name be?
NEIL: [00:11:07] The Failure. Possibly. Either that or The Wuss.
PRINCESS: [00:11:12] Oh, my God.
NEIL: [00:11:14] You know The Wuss. I yes, I had really good plans to stab him with scissors, but I just couldn't. aagh agh agh - the blood! so. No, I took him out for dinner. I waved him goodbye. And I am The Wuss. I am the worst serial killer. Yes, I got the booby prize for worst serial killer. Thank you, guys. That would be me. I'd be The Wuss.
PRINCESS: [00:11:35] That was perfect. And I just think. Like what performance -- and I'm sure you got this a lot -- but like, what performance do you, are you the most excited about people seeing once this airs?
NEIL: [00:11:47] Oh, that's so hard. I, okay, I probably there are so many fabulous performances in there. Gwendolyn is amazing. Stephen Fry as Gilbert will break your heart and inspire you. He's so good. John Cameron Mitchell as Hal and Dolly is is a creature of magic. Boyd Holbrook is the Corinthian. You just fall in love with him and you don't want to because he's a serial killer and the patron saint of serial killer. And he will eat your eyeballs.
PRINCESS: [00:12:15] Yes.
NEIL: [00:12:16] But I mean, he's so lovely and all of that. But with that giant list of everybody, I think for me it has to be Hob Gadling in the pub every hundred years. And I just feel like Ferdi's performance... It's also kind of weird because normally what I love about Sandman is people deliver performances that weren't the ones in my head. I love what Boyd brings to the Corinthian. It wasn't the Corinthian that I imagined, it's Boyd's Corinthian now, and he's cooler and more charming and nicer and more Southern and all of that kind of works, for example. But for some weird reason Ferdi's Hob is the Hob I heard in my head when I wrote that episode, probably before he was born, and it was the Hob that I expected. And there he is. And he's saying all of those lines in exactly the way that I always dreamed they'd be said. And he is the thing that I wanted in my heart. And I loved that episode more than I can possibly say, just watching. And all it is, is two people meeting eight times in a pub. You know, you wouldn't think that's really not very much really happens.
TESSA: [00:13:37] No, the humanity, yeah.
NEIL: [00:13:38] But all human life is there and it's and it's magic.
PRINCESS: [00:13:42] I mean, after the after the pandemic, hanging out with a friend in a pub is really the height of interaction at this point. And I think that I think that's so, I think that's so interesting because I think I know so many writers have a hard time letting go of the image that they have in their mind when they put it on the page. But it feels like you just have a much more organic process of just knowing that this art is now being passed on to a new medium. Like how did you get comfortable with saying like, okay, I gave my image of this character and now I want to see how someone else reinterprets that.
NEIL: [00:14:17] You know, I think for me, Sandman was a collaboration. Sandman was always a collaboration. And I look at the artists that I got to work with: Sam Keith and Mike Dringenberg, Kelley Jones, Charles Vess, Colleen Doran, Jill Thompson, Charles Vess, P. Craig Russell -- I could keep going and keep going. Mark Hempel, all of these amazing people. Michael Zulli. They were amazing. They were magic, and every one of them brought something new. And the joy for me of making comics rather than writing a novel was it was, it was never solo. I had friends with me and I got to respond to and react to and delight in and take joy in what they got to do. And nobody, you know, no two artists drew dream the same way. No two artists drew death the same way. And that was that was never a bug. That was always a feature. That was the fun of what we were doing. So, as far as I was concerned when Allan Heinberg, who was himself a mad Sandman fan, when David Goyer brought Allan to the table and we sat and had dinner and talked about how we would turn Sandman into television. And I loved what Allan was saying, and and I was like, Oh, great, this is another collaborator. This is like working with Sam Keith or Mike Dringenberg or Kelley Jones. Now I'm getting to do this with Allan Heinberg, and it's been an absolute delight.
TESSA: [00:15:53] Well, we loved it. It was incredible. We watched the whole thing and we are I was blown away. So I just have to say, like Princess was a long time fan of the comics. I've never read them before. So this was my first my first realm. And I I've already bought them. I already have them have. So it's one of those things where I just. Real quick for someone like me who has only watched the Netflix series but hasn't read the comics yet, like what should I expect when reading? Because it's like if we want to keep going with the story and also to see where the show may go, like what should we expect?
NEIL: [00:16:29] Well, first of all, I'm thrilled. I -- on the one hand, the first people that I cared about were the Sandman fans because I wanted them to go, I'm a Sandman fan. I've been a Sandman fan for up to 30 years, and, oh my gosh, this is that thing that I've hoped to see on the screen, and it really has happened. And you did it. Thank you so much. So they were the primary audience for me. I thought of them kind of as yogurt starter because I thought, well, they if they like it, they'll go out into society and they'll be the ones standing by the watercooler saying, okay, there's a show called Sandman. I was a bit worried because it's my favorite comic, but oh my God, this is so amazing. You have to see it. And they're the ones who will be bringing everybody to Netflix and making them watch it. But my secondary people are the ones like you. The ones who--.
TESSA: [00:17:20] Yep,
NEIL: [00:17:20] Have no idea what they're going to see. They have no idea what to expect and for whom everything is going to be a surprise and for whom everything is going to be a, What they did THAT?
PRINCESS: [00:17:32] Absolutely.
NEIL: [00:17:32] I did not expect that. I did not see that coming. Oh, my gosh.
PRINCESS: [00:17:36] Entire diner scene.
TESSA: [00:17:38] Oh the diner scene was wild. Oh, my goodness.
NEIL: [00:17:41] And and, you know, and I know that, yeah, you have the diner coming. And then once you get through the diner, we have episode six, we have The Sound of Wings and we have yeah. And we have Hob Gadling in the pub and that will make it all better. That will kiss you better, and calm you down and give you a reassuring hug and tell you we're not actually bad people, but we are giving you a big thing here. And what you have to understand is this could go to dark places or it could go to light places. And this isn't like any show you've ever seen before because every other show you've seen, if you've watched a slice of it, the next episode is going to be a slice of that show. And with this, it can go anywhere and it probably will. And all you know is that you are not ready. And so what I can assure you is that in the comic, when you read the comics and you read ahead, there will be stuff that you are not expecting. But I will tell you that the next big storyline coming up and obviously if people like season one will get to do it for season two is called Season of Mists. And it's the one where Morpheus goes back to hell for the rematch with Lucifer. And Lucifer is waiting and things are not going to go as Morpheus planned. And that is all I will tell you about that.
TESSA: [00:19:10] So hyped! Thank you so much for sitting down with us and talking to us. I know you're the busiest man alive right now, so you're brilliant. It was so nice to talk to you.
PRINCESS: [00:19:20] Absolutely.
NEIL: [00:19:21] Thank you, guys. I loved this.
PRINCESS: [00:19:31] Well, I was going to say, Tessa, since you are the newb. What was your kind of feelings about this series?
TESSA: [00:19:39] I don't want to, like, overly hype this. I don't know. I just think it was one of the best things I've ever watched. So I'm just like I. I don't know how to even respond to this because I was so intrigued by every single thing like this show has, every everything that I love. Like, it's all the shit that I want to consume. And not only has this, like, hot guy, dreamy hot guy that's kind of evil, kind of not kind of like but he's, like, brooding and like Edward Cullin, slash Batman, like, everything that I love. And then you also have it's like, oh, then we have a hot death girl. And then we have this, and then we have this cool storyline. And then you have just the most insane episodes where they talk about such big ideas and explore such intense, like, intimate themes. But then also it has a fun plot and there's like, Oh, we have to find the stuff or Oh, now. Like, I wonder what's going to happen with this storyline. And, and each like volume that was put into this like was a little different too, which I thought was interesting. I'm glad that they all kept it into one season because they could have, like, dragged this out so much, but because there is so much happening, it never when I was watching it, it never felt like it was like dragging. It really felt like I was just getting so much information and I just wanted to write everything down. And but now it's like, Oh, but there's comics, so I don't have to write every single thing down.
PRINCESS: [00:21:04] Exactly.
TESSA: [00:21:06] But I was just blown away. Like, let's just say I thought it was incredible.
PRINCESS: [00:21:11] I really love this show. It was a very it was a treat to watch. I love that each episode was exactly the length they needed for that episode. They didn't like try to make sure every episode was like an hour or 45 minutes. However, like some episodes were shorter than others. And I would say like for the comic book fans, this is very, very faithful to the graphic novel. The only things that are really changed besides, you know, they've added just more diversity is like there are a few things that are simplified or like slightly toned down because they make more sense and sort of like the post-modernist, you know, chaotic page but would not feel as I guess lucid is achieving. They're on like on film. Right. So there are certain scenes that are definitely like toned down from the source material. But in terms of the storybeats and what happens and the themes and the characterization is pretty solid.
TESSA: [00:22:12] Do you have like an example of like what you mean by toned down? Do you mean just like the gore element of it, the intensity of like the topics that they're talking about or.
PRINCESS: [00:22:23] A little bit. So I think I think the best example I wrote it down, so we're going to skip to episode five is when Lupin is free.
TESSA: [00:22:35] Talk about another treat for me personally. I was like are you kidding me?
PRINCESS: [00:22:38] When I saw him I was like look at Lupin out in these streets.
TESSA: [00:22:40] I was likee, look at lupin with this evil ass sorcerer's stone that he is dangling on a necklace like shut up. I loved it.
PRINCESS: [00:22:50] Right. So that sequence, like when they're in the diner like that is all accurate, but it's a lot more slow, like, grinding. And then, like, at the end, they're all having Like, they're all kind of having an orgy. They're like fighting each other. It's just a lot more chaotic and violent like each panel is, just like this explosion of like, emotion. And also that character is like pretty much like a skeletal half man. He kind of looks like the Grendel from like Beowulf rather than like an actual human being. So they definitely toned that down. And the other thing that is really funny is that Sandman is published under DC, so there's actually a lot of DC stuff that is in the original thing. So like the place that Lupin John D is held is Arkham Asylum.
TESSA: [00:23:38] Oh my Gosh.
PRINCESS: [00:23:40] And when Dream goes to figure out like who has the last of his like who has the necklace, he says that like, oh, it came into conflict with the Justice League of America. And he goes to Martian Manhunter to find out the location of the jewel. And obviously they didn't do all of that in this, but it was just kinda.
TESSA: [00:23:59] I'm kind of glad, though, that would have taken me out of it a little bit. To be honest.
PRINCESS: [00:24:04] I don't think a lot of people like know when I was reading it, I was like, All right, this is a DC property. I was like, I was like Arkam? I was like, Oh, right. There's a lot more of that. And there's just like a lot of like homages to like, oh, yeah, Batman, Superman, they exist in this world. Interesting. So it definitely exists in that kind of lens. And I think other than that though, like, everything is pretty consistent. I think one thing I felt was like a really good change is that like in the the character of Rosemary, who is Ted Lasso's therapist.
TESSA: [00:24:38] Yes.
PRINCESS: [00:24:39] She gets to live, which I loved.
TESSA: [00:24:41] Oh, yeah.
PRINCESS: [00:24:42] Because he kills her in the comic. And also, one of the most heartbreaking breaking passages is like when Death is hanging out with Dream and she's like taking all the lives, and then she takes the baby. Like, you see the mother's just falling apart emotionally. And that is toned down. There's a lot of nudity and like gore that is toned down in it. But I think it's tastefully done still. And I don't think it was like, oh, we're trying to water it down. I think everything is very true to the text, but it is understanding that this is just going to reach a much broader audience than just like the adults and like. Also, it was he wrote it in like 1989. So it just, you know, the work is going to evolve the more it gets adapted.
TESSA: [00:25:22] Those two things that you mentioned were my two favorite parts of the whole show, like the diner whole scene episode, and also like when death was going around, like doing that. Those two parts just, like, blew my mind completely.
CLIP: [00:25:36] I don't think it is you. I think it's him. You said you were going to change the world. I didn't believe you. All I did was take away the lies. You all did the rest. You did what you wanted to. I never wanted this.
TESSA: [00:25:52] I liked how it felt like it was different shows and, like, one show. Like, I kind of love that. But that's why I loved, like, supernatural. I loved things like Black Mirror. I like shows that, like, go into different things and tackle different not only realms, but different like time periods when he was going through, like the difference of the years and going back to that same bar every hundred years like that was.
PRINCESS: [00:26:13] Oh yeah, wiith hiis friend Hob. Yeah.
TESSA: [00:26:15] I like I love that it felt like Doctor Who he it's like all my favorite things. It's like, let's give it like a little sprinkle of everything that Tessa loves into one thing. So I was just I can't even begin to explain it. Okay. Let me let's talk about the diner scene first, because that was something that I like cannot stop thinking about even now. Like that moment when, like, the cook was, like, said that he fucked her son, like my mouth, just like it was.
PRINCESS: [00:26:44] Like, girl. And the thing about me, I was like, wait, he's like, he's 21. I'm like, okay. Like, I was so scared. He just kind of fell. I was like, What if she's like, Oh, he's grown. I was so scared. I was watching too much Law and Order SVU. I was like.
TESSA: [00:26:57] I hit my mouth was just like.
PRINCESS: [00:26:58] Because yeah, that part is not in the yeah, because that part is on the comic. But to really quick before we go more deeper, I guess I should probably break down like what the show is about.
TESSA: [00:27:07] Oh yeah. You just run right into it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Break it down. Break it down.
PRINCESS: [00:27:11] All right, so this Sandman is about once upon a time, Tywin Lannister decided that he wanted to try and capture death to bring back his son. And in the middle of doing that, he accidentally catches a twink, a.k.a. Morpheus, a.k.a. Dream, and he ends up locking him in a circle in a containment circle, endless glass prison. For over a hundred years. They steal his magic sand, his pocket sand, and they steal his, you know, his special locket, and they steal his helm. And with that, his powers wane. And it leads to people going into these long lasting sleeps. We meet the character of unity, specifically in the comics. There are a few others that we see get affected by it. And then after a hundred years, he ends up escaping when one of the guards falls asleep by the prison and he escapes and he goes to get all of his shit. And during while he was kidnaped his pocket sand went to Joanna Constantine, which is the gender bend version of John Constantine, played by some people's favorite companion from Doctor Who. Jenna Coleman.
TESSA: [00:28:28] She was amazing.
PRINCESS: [00:28:29] She was really good. She was making that accent work for her. The helm gets taken by a demon and then he has to go fightt Brienne of Tarth who is Lucifer in hell.
CLIP: [00:28:40] Hello, dream. Greetings to you, Lucifer Morningstar.
PRINCESS: [00:28:45] That was pretty baller as well. And then the third item was stolen by Joely Richardson, who I love. She's a great actress, sister of Natasha Richardson. She stole the gem live for a very long time. And then her son, Remus Lupine, ends up getting the gem. So now Morpheus has to catch them all to regain his power and help the dreaming world get back to normal. And then now we can get back into the nuance, our favorite moments.
TESSA: [00:29:17] That's like all of volume one. And then, like, I think Death's in volume one to right.
PRINCESS: [00:29:21] At the very end at the very end of volume one is when Death is like, Hey, girl, why are you not? Why don't you call me? Yeah, why don't you let me know what was going on? And he's like, I'm sorry, my bad sis. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't think. I didn't think. I thought you were busy. And she's like, I'm not too busy for my little brother. And I was like, same.
TESSA: [00:29:41] Oh, yeah. So that's all like the first half and then the second half, volume two of the show is is the whole like Rose Walker storyline, which is wild. And I kind of loved I wasn't expecting that because the first that first half is so much like involved in like Dream himself and like finding these things. So I thought that the second one was going to be like him just immediately rebuilding his kingdom or him immediately like something going wrong. But then for it to just like completely go to this to this girl and her entire story and how she's like connected to everything, and then for it all to come full circle. Hell yeah. I loved that. So good.
PRINCESS: [00:30:22] Yeah, it was really interesting because I know like when I was re-reading the comic, I was like about three episodes in and I was like, I wonder how they're going to like, drag this out. I thought it was going to end with just the first volume.
TESSA: [00:30:33] Right?
PRINCESS: [00:30:34] And I was like, That doesn't fit the pacing. So when we finally see, like, Lupin is defeated, it's kind of like, Well, where do we go from here? But yet the stakes still feel very high because it's like, Oh yeah, the whole world's about to implode, about to go to a serial killer convention.
TESSA: [00:30:50] Oh my god. Yes.
CLIP: [00:30:52] Serial convention. I thought they'd be Cereal.
PRINCESS: [00:30:55] Which was. I was just sitting here, you know, with me with my my true name. I'm like, well, that's John Wayne Gacy. That's this person. I was just out here like, man, this is disturbing. And then the Corinthian who is very hot. Oh, yeah. Getting it. In all over these United States.
TESSA: [00:31:13] Just with anyone he can.
PRINCESS: [00:31:14] Slap and slap and slapping his meat around. It's good for him. Yeah. It's just like all of these fun moments, because it's like. It's it's plot driven and story driven, but, like, all the characters have, like, feel very lived in and have, like these great stakes.
TESSA: [00:31:28] Oh, for sure.
PRINCESS: [00:31:28] You know, like, there's the human stakes and then there's the supernatural stakes. And I think those are what makes each conflict kind of blend right into each other.
TESSA: [00:31:36] Mm hmm. And then the casting in this is insane. Like, I don't.
PRINCESS: [00:31:41] SO good.
TESSA: [00:31:41] I'm trying to think I don't know what they could have done, but, I mean, you know better because you've read the story itself. Like, did all of these characters, like, fit in the same experience that you were, like, reading? Like, did they come to life or did they see some of them change in a way that was even better.
PRINCESS: [00:31:57] From the ones that we saw? Definitely. Like, I think that they're all like subtle things, like I love Gwendoline Christie as Lucifer. It is technically the Lucifer that is like Tom Ellis from like the Lucifer show, but this is like much closer to the comic version and like the hair is very accurate. I love that. I loved, you know, David Thewlis as John D like John D is was definitely the most liberties I think with the character. Like they make the Corinthian a little bit more swaggerific, but I think what John D like, they very humanized him and I think that maybe works, works for the best, I would say. And I and I this is nothing against Tom Sturridge because I think that he is like doing very well. But I to me, it's like he was both a very strong actor, but I kind of wanted to see like who else was in the running for that role.
TESSA: [00:32:50] Interesting.
PRINCESS: [00:32:51] Well, because I feel like and like he just kind of looks like he kind of it kind of felt like so many white British male actors. You know what I mean like in a sense that like, you know, his cadence and everything. I was like, there's so many people that I could just see. Like, I could have seen Benedict Cumberbatch in that role. I could have seen like a young Tom Hiddleston, but not because I think that like because I feel like that's kind of the same level that he was on. And I guess I kind of wanted to see like, who else was in the running? Like what was his direction? Like I think of like James McAvoy, who did the audiobook.
TESSA: [00:33:23] Oh, interesting.
PRINCESS: [00:33:24] Like how he performed Dream was a little bit different, but it's not bad. I still like him as Dream. I think he's very strong and he very much carries it. I think I or maybe I just wish he had bigger hair because of the hair because like, because like Dream's hair is such a huge part of his character and it looks so much like Neil Gaiman's hair. Like, his hair is, too. His hair was too small. I was like, I want it bigger. I want a big, crazy boy band hair. Just something a little bit less neat.
TESSA: [00:33:52] To me like his. First of all, Mr. Tom, your voice is very hot and distracting.
PRINCESS: [00:33:59] I it is very it is very nice.
TESSA: [00:34:01] I loved his voice that he did for the character. It was that's why it reminded me of Batman, because he had this, like, specific voice that he used, although he reminded me of Edward Cullen because he's just standing there like watching people.
PRINCESS: [00:34:14] That's who he reminded me of, too. I was like, he feels like he looked so much like Robert Pattinson in Twilight.
TESSA: [00:34:20] I know, but that's why I loved it.
PRINCESS: [00:34:23] I know. But I was it was because he even had Robert Pattinson's hair. And I'm just like, This is it. That was just like that. That's. That's not correct. Like, that was my only I think I think it's because I think it's because Dream looks otherworldly in the comics and he looks so normal in the show.
TESSA: [00:34:42] Yeah. He's too hot for you.
PRINCESS: [00:34:45] Well, he's he's too Normie for me. I just would have liked out of, like, something in his design that was a little bit more supernatural.
TESSA: [00:34:53] So I want to talk about the serial killer convention because. Talk about a ridiculous like to me that because again because I didn't read this this came out of nowhere and I was like beside myself. I was like, what is this? This is so. And I like the rules that they had. And the they like these kids were like, get out of here. And they like that one kid freaking Jeb what I think. Jeb. Yeah. Jed was, like, running around and, like, bitch, get back in the room. What are you doing? There's all these serial killers around here. Like, just why are you running off?
PRINCESS: [00:35:31] Don't do that. The moment I saw, like, I knew it from the. From the comic, I just like lol. This is so rude. To me, I was living for it as a true crime that I was like, yep, I know who all of you are. I see the allusions, but just the idea every time, like Stephen Fry was just walking to each room was just like, good heavens, just the the Britishness on his face was just like, what the, what, the blood you know, I was, I, I deeply enjoyed it. And I also thought that it was very clever, the kind of like I love in the comic as well. Like there are all these pop culture references that are like some of them you can't outwardly say, but you're like hinting at it. And I think like, I love the idea, like while Dream was gone, which is during the time when like serial killers really did take off things that it's like they did it, like they get to like live in these fantasy world of their own goodness. And tapping into that, I was like, Oh, that's so interesting. And to say that that they would have a meeting and they would be like, Oh, it's a serial convention. And I'm just sitting here like.
TESSA: [00:36:30] Right.
PRINCESS: [00:36:31] And everyone's like, No kids, and they're just like, Yeah, I like, that's the first, that's a sign. And their names are like all their little name, nametags. I was like, Oh, you guys are ridiculous. I can't. And my favorite part I think was actually besides the other scenes was definitely the Hob storyline where we see like dream meeting this guy and like becoming friends with him over all this time because there's just this kind of little reminder of like, oh like, you have all these intimate connections and like when he was like, Are you saying that I'm lonely, that I need to be your friend? I was like, What a Leo. Because right now it's like you have somebody out here trying to be on your side and you're just like, I don't need friends. And I'm like, Are you sure? Because it looks like you need one right now. So I just I felt very I was very happy when he swallowed his pride. It was like, I know it's rude to leave a set- to leave a friend waiting. I'm like, That's right.
TESSA: [00:37:30] Yeah. I do love when that happens to him. It happened to him with Lucy and it happened to him here. It's like wheneverDream is like, okay, I do need someone to love me or I do need friends or I do need help. Like, I don't I can't do all this myself. Okay? It's like, yes, correct. Because I feel like there's a part I don't know. I guess it's bigger in some people than others. But there's definitely a part in me where I just want to like do everything myself and I don't want anyone. I'm like, I don't need anybody else's help. And it's like, bitch, yes, you do. You do need other people's help. Like, stop it.
PRINCESS: [00:38:00] Like it's okay to ask for help. It's okay.
TESSA: [00:38:11] I was just going to say so final thoughts here. I just think this is one of the best shows I have ever seen. I can't wait to see more of it. I think everyone who loves supernatural fantasy type shows like Doctor Who, Stranger Things, you should watch this like you're going to love this. I don't know who wouldn't love this if you don't love that type of stuff. So it's brilliant.
PRINCESS: [00:38:33] Absolutely. And I would just say, like, my one more thing that I want to add before we go is that anyone who has a problem with the casting of Death in this series, because the actress is black, you're dumb. And I'm not sorry to say that. Have a good day.
TESSA: [00:38:53] I mean, you're right. They are dumb.
PRINCESS: [00:38:55] I mean, like you're wrong. Like, she's an excellent actress, and she had entirely that energy, and it was perfect casting. And you're wrong. Sorry that you like racism more than good acting. Couldn't be me. Neil Gaiman is like, wow, I can't believe you guys don't know that I like people of all races. Sucks to be you, I guess.
TESSA: [00:39:16] Sucks to be you.
PRINCESS: [00:39:18] Okay, y'all, you know the drill. If you like us, follow us, get in formation. You can find the geeked podcast wherever you listen to podcasts, Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, etc. And for those of you who absolutely can't get enough of us, let us know in a five star review. We'll even read it aloud on the show and probably mispronounced some names. So what are you waiting for? Go do it now, please.
TESSA: [00:39:47] Okay. So I'm actually going to read one of those reviews right now which says Amazing from S.E. Jove. And they say, I have thoroughly enjoyed this series with Tessa and Princess and I hope their show can continue on. Me too. I really appreciate all their summaries, opinions, breakdowns, and the additional context they provide. It's been a comfort show to listen to, to the point that I have listened to some episodes more than once, and it has been helpful in processing my own opinions about the shows they discuss. Please, please, please. I need Princess aand Tessa to return for more Geeked goodness. Oh, thank you for that review.
PRINCESS: [00:40:28] Thank you. By Jove, you're right. I love that. Thank you.
TESSA: [00:40:33] Yes, correct. Also, anyway, the Geeked podcast is hosted by me, Tessa Netting.
PRINCESS: [00:40:39] And Me Princess Weekes.
TESSA: [00:40:42] You can find me on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, all the internet places at Tessa Netting.
PRINCESS: [00:40:47] And you can find me on YouTube as Princess Weekes and on Twitter at Weekes Princess and I finally join that tik tok that everyone's talking about as Princess Pendulum. So have fun with that. Next week we are opening all the doors to your hearts, using our keys to unlock new worlds. Okay. Talking about Locke and Key. I know that was very subtle of me how I introduced that, but it's true.
TESSA: [00:41:13] Yes.
PRINCESS: [00:41:14] Get your keyholes ready.
TESSA: [00:41:16] Get your keyholes ready for Locke and key baby.
PRINCESS: [00:41:21] Anyway, this is a Netflix eat and spoken media production.
TESSA: [00:41:25] Our executive producers are Keisha TK Dutes, Brigam Mosley, Aliia Tavakolian and Keith Reynolds.
PRINCESS: [00:41:31] Kelly Kolff is our producer. Reyes Mendoza is our associate producer. DaLaura Patton is our coordinating producer. Special thanks to Carson McCain.
TESSA: [00:41:40] Sound Design and Engineering by Evan Arnett, who also composed and performed our amazing original theme.
PRINCESS: [00:41:46] To stay updated on all things geek to be sure to follow Netflix, Geeked on Twitter, Instagram and TikTok. Thank you so much for listening.
TESSA: [00:41:55] Goodbye. We'll see you in your dreams.
CLIP: [00:42:05] Geeked