The Mind Flayer has taken a new host and a new form. In our final episode, you’ll get up close and personal with The Mind Flayer; from the people who created his monster, to the people he flayed. To hear more from actor Dacre Montgomery, look for his podcast DKMH on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
The Mind Flayer has taken a new host and a new form. In our final episode, you’ll get up close and personal with The Mind Flayer; from the people who created his monster, to the people he flayed.
To hear more from actor Dacre Montgomery, look for his podcast DKMH on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Dan: THIS IS A CODE RED! I REPEAT, THIS IS A CODE RED. THERE ARE SPOILERS AHEAD, SO MAKE SURE TO WATCH ALL OF STRANGER THINGS 3 ON NETFLIX BEFORE GOING ANY FURTHER.
ELEVEN FIRST OPENED THE GATE TO THE UPSIDE DOWN WAY BACK IN STRANGER THINGS ONE, WHEN SHE MADE CONTACT WITH A DEMOGORGON– YOU KNOW, THAT BIG MONSTER WITH THE FLOWER FACE FULL OF TEETH THAT YOU KNOW STILL HAUNTS YOU IN YOUR DREAMS.
Clip: Demogorgon roar
Dan: BUT ROSS DUFFER AND HIS BROTHER MATT, THE CREATORS OF THE SERIES, THEY KNEW THAT THE DEMOGORGON WOULD BE THE LEAST OF ELEVEN’S UPSIDE DOWN PROBLEMS.
Ross: We always saw the Demogorgons as sharks, like the shark in Jaws, in season one. But ultimately it was a creature. It was following blood. And so what we really wanted to do to up the stakes moving forward is to create something sentient, because that's always even scarier to us than just a creature or a monster.
Dan: SO GOING INTO STRANGER THINGS TWO, THEY WANTED AN ANTAGONIST WHO WOULD BE MORE POWERFUL THAN A DEMOGORGON. AND THE WRITERS WANTED SOMETHING THEY COULD BUILD AS A RECURRING VILLAIN.
AND WHEN THE WRITERS WERE BRAINSTORMING WHAT THIS NEW ENEMY COULD BE, PAUL DICHTER, ONE OF THE WRITERS ON THE SHOW, HE SAYS THEY TOOK A PAGE OUT OF MIKE, LUCAS, WILL AND DUSTIN’S BOOK: THE DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS MANUAL.
Clip: The mind flayer, what the hell is that, monster from unknown dimension. It’s so ancient that it doesn’t even know it’s new home.
Paul: When we came across the Mind Flayer in Dungeons and Dragons mythology, it felt almost like a shocking discovery.
Dan: THE D N D MIND FLAYER WAS COSMIC. HE WAS FROM ANOTHER DIMENSION. HE THOUGHT OF HIMSELF AS A SUPERIOR BEING WHO WANTED TO TAKE OVER OTHER WORLDS.
AND SO IS THE STRANGER THINGS MIND FLAYER. HE’S THE ALL POWERFUL BEING WHO RULES THE PARALLEL DIMENSION KNOWN AS THE UPSIDE DOWN.
AND THIS SEASON, THE MIND FLAYER TRIES, ONCE AGAIN, TO TAKE OVER HAWKINS AND THE ENTIRE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT.
SO FOR OUR SEASON FINALE, WE’RE THE ONES GOING UP AGAINST THE ENEMY.
WE’LL FACE THE PEOPLE HE FLAYED.
Clip: Billy, we’re going to end everyone
Dan: WE’LL DISSECT THE MONSTER HE’S BUILDING OUT OF ALL THOSE TOWNS PEOPLE.
Clip: Roar
Dan: AND WE’LL FIND OUT HOW, EVEN THOUGH ELEVEN LOST HER POWERS, THE STRANGER THINGS GANG STILL MANAGED TO FOIL THE MIND FLAYER’S MASTER PLAN.
Clip: Close the gate
Dan: I’M YOUR HOST, DAN TABERSKI AND THIS IS BEHIND THE SCENES OF STRANGER THINGS THREE.
EPISODE THREE: THE MIND FLAYER.
LAST SEASON, THE MIND FLAYER TRIED TO CONQUER HAWKINS BY UNLEASHING AN ARMY OF DEMADOGS AND BY POSSESSING WILL BYERS.
Clip: It’s like everything in your body is just sinking all at once, body goes cold...
Dan: BUT THE MIND FLAYER’S PLAN FAILED BECAUSE ELEVEN CLOSED THE GATE. THE THEORY WAS– IF YOU CLOSE THE GATE, YOU CUT THE MIND FLAYER OFF FROM OUR DIMENSION, AND SO ANY PART OF HIM THAT WAS LEFT IN OUR DIMENSION WOULD PERISH. SO THE KIDS ASSUMED THAT WHATEVER PIECE OF THE MIND FLAYER WAS EXPELLED FROM WILL BYERS’S BODY HAD DIED. BUT THAT ASSUMPTION WAS TOTALLY WRONG.
Clip: What if he never left. What if we locked him out here with us?
Ross: We always had this idea that what if he was locked in here with Hawkins, with the kids, and what would he do if he was locked in?
Dan: ROSS AND HIS BROTHER MATT LOVED THE IDEA THAT ALL THIS TIME, THAT PIECE OF THE MIND FLAYER THAT WAS IN WILL, IT HADN’T DIED. INSTEAD, IT WAS LYING DORMANT IN HAWKINS, STEWING, WAITING FOR THE GATE TO BE REOPENED.
AND FOR THE DUFFERS AND THE WRITERS, HAVING A PIECE OF THE MIND FLAYER LOCKED UP IN THE KIDS DIMENSION WOULD CREATE NEW POSSIBILITIES FOR THE SUPERNATURAL STORYLINE.
Ross: And we got excited about a couple of things. One, that he knew about Eleven now, which he didn't in season two, which is really why we ended season two with the Mind Flayer hovering over Hawkins. Because now he's aware that this girl has these powers that are extraordinarily strong and can stop him from his evil plans.
Dan: OBVIOUSLY THE MIND FLAYER’S GONNA TRY AND TAKE OVER THE WORLD AGAIN. IT’S WHAT VILLAINS DO! AND THIS TIME AROUND, HE KNOWS HE’S GOTTA TAKE OUT ELEVEN FIRST.
Ross: We thought about what he would do, and we thought about the idea of him in sort of that Hellraiser way of building a body.
Dan: BUILDING A BODY WOULD MEAN THAT THE MIND FLAYER WOULD HAVE A PHYSICAL PRESENCE IN HAWKINS. AND THIS PHYSICAL PROXY WOULD BE SO BIG AND SO POWERFUL THAT THERE’S NO CHANCE HE’D LOSE AGAINST ELEVEN THIS TIME.
Clip: Just to be clear, this fleshy thing hurt el, is a weapon. Made it out of bodies.
Dan: THE MIND FLAYER STARTS BUILDING THIS CREATURE WITH RATS, BUT QUICKLY REALIZES HE NEEDS BIGGER BODIES. AND TO GET THOSE BODIES, HE NEEDS A NEW HOST. THIS TIME PREFERABLY NOT A SWEET, INNOCENT THIRTEEN YEAR OLD BOY.
Dacre: We'd actually spoken about it a lot in season two, and that was something that I was very aware of, but I wasn't really aware of how it was going to pan out.
Dan: DACRE MONTGOMERY IS THE AUSTRAILIAN ACTOR WHO PLAYS MAX’S BIG BROTHER, BILLY HARGROVE. YOU KNOW, THE LIFEGUARD WITH THE SEXIEST MULLET PERM IN HAWKINS.
HAVING THE MIND FLAYER CONTROL BILLY, THIS WASN’T A NEW IDEA. THE DUFFERS TALKED TO DACRE LAST SEASON ABOUT WANTING TO DO SOME POSSESSION PLOT LINE WITH BILLY. THEY EVEN TRIED TO WORK IT INTO SEASON TWO, BUT THEY WEREN’T ABLE TO FIT IT IN. SO WHEN THEY SAT BACK DOWN IN THE WRITERS ROOM FOR STRANGER THINGS THREE, POSSESSING BILLY WAS BACK ON THE TABLE.
BILLY IS A PRETTY GREAT HOST FOR TWO REASONS. ONE, HE’S THIS BIG, MAGNETIC, MUSCLY GUY
Clip: Billy at the pool
Dan: AND HE’S ALREADY GOT AN AGGRESSIVE STREAK. WHICH COMES IN HANDY, SINCE HIS WHOLE JOB IS KNOCKING PEOPLE OUT AND BRINGING THEM TO A WAREHOUSE TO BE FLAYED BY A MONSTER.
Clip: IT’LL BE OVER SOON
Dan: AND SECONDLY, BILLY’S A CONVENIENT HOST BECAUSE THE GROUP OF KIDS INVESTIGATING THE MIND FLAYER INCLUDES HIS LITTLE SISTER MAX. AND MAX HAPPENS TO BE BESTIES WITH ELEVEN, THE MIND FLAYER’S ARCH NEMESIS. SO MAX AND ELEVEN ARE ABLE TO SNOOP AROUND BILLY’S BATHROOM TOGETHER WITHOUT, YA KNOW, BREAKING IN.
Clip: WHY DO I HAVE THE FEELING ALL KINDS OF WRONG
Dan: THEY FIND BLOOD ON HIS CABINETS AND MELTED ICE IN HIS BATHTUB, WHICH ALL LEADS TO A GROWING SUSPICION THAT BILLY IS UP TO SOMETHING. SO THE KIDS DECIDE TO CONFRONT HIM.
Clip: Controls are here, 220 degrees, lock him in, heat him up, we’ll know for sure
Kate: For the actual sauna test, I rewatched and I read the scene from The Shining when Jack Torrance is in the freezer.
Dan: KATE TREFRY IS A WRITER ON STRANGER THINGS. SHE WROTE THE FIRST DRAFT OF CHAPTER FOUR. IT’S THE EPISODE WHERE THE KIDS DO A SAUNA TEST TO CONFIRM WHETHER OR NOT THE MIND FLAYER WAS ACTUALLY CONTROLLING BILLY.
Kate: Because that was kind of the feeling that I wanted to evoke, and because I think that that character vacillates so effectively from somebody familiar to somebody horrifying, something unrecognizably bad.
Dacre: Let's talk about Jack Nicholson for a second.
Dan: OKAY! SO JACK NICHOLSON FAMOUSLY PLAYS JACK TORRENCE, THE MAIN CHARACTER IN THE SHINING, ONE OF THE SCARIEST MOVIES EVER MADE. AND ON STRANGER THINGS, IT’S CLEAR THAT HORROR OBSESSED MINDS THINK ALIKE. BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH THEY NEVER TALKED ABOUT IT, KATE WAS REFERENCING THE SHINING IN THIS SCENE, AND DACRE LOOKED TO JACK NICHOLSON’S PERFORMANCE FOR INSPIRATION.
Dacre: I feel like whether he's playing the archetypal villain, or hero, or somewhere in between, he gives very unusual acting choices, which I think keep the audience on their toes a little bit. That was a strategy that I wanted to employ a little bit in this season. I think it was very important, even more so than last season, to keep the audience on their toes.
Dan: LIKE WHEN THE KIDS ARE LURING BILLY INTO THE SAUNA AND HE SEES WHAT HE THINKS IS A KID WHO’S TAUNTING HIM…
Clip: Got you
Dan: BILLY’S LAUGH AND CLAP WHEN HE THINKS HE’S CAUGHT HIS PREY. THAT’S JUST ONE OF THE UNUSUAL ACTING CHOICES DACRE MADE WHILE PLAYING BILLY.
AND ONCE BILLY GETS TRAPPED IN THE SAUNA, AND THE KIDS START CRANKING UP THE HEAT, THE LINE BETWEEN WHERE BILLY ENDS AND THE MIND FLAYER BEGINS IS BLURRED FOR THE KIDS, FOR YOU AND ME IN THE AUDIENCE, AND FOR BILLY.
Dacre: I wanna think it's a fight. It's a constant fight, like you're choking yourself in a weird way.
Dan: DACRE WANTED TO FIND A WAY TO SHOW THE INTERNAL STRUGGLE THAT BILLY IS EXPERIENCING BECAUSE OF THE MIND FLAYER’S CONTROL. SO HE RESEARCHED DISSOCIATIVE IDENTITY DISORDER, WHAT USED TO BE KNOWN AS MULTIPLE OR SPLIT PERSONALITY DISORDER.
Dacre: I did a lot of work about, in psychology, where the spot is, which personality has control over the spot, the room in your head. And I think the whole thing is the fight for Billy having the spot and having the voice. So I did a lot of work on those people that suffer or live with those conditions.
Dan: THE WORK THAT DACRE PUT INTO THIS CHARACTER IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE HE’S NOT JUST PLAYING BILLY, IN SOME WAYS, HE’S PLAYING THE MIND FLAYER. THE ONLY TIMES WE HEAR THE MIND FLAYER SPEAK IS THROUGH BILLY, BOTH IN THE UPSIDE DOWN, AND LATER, IN BILLY’S MEMORIES.
Clip: You let us in and now you are going to have to let us stay
Dan: BUT BILLY’S JUST ONE PIECE OF THE MIND FLAYER. AND NOW, WE’RE ABOUT TO GET INTO THE OTHER SLIMY, TOOTHY, 30 FOOT TALL PIECE OF HIM– THE MONSTER.
Clip: ROAR
Dan: LAST SEASON, THE MIND FLAYER WASN’T A PHYSICAL BEING. HE WAS A LOOMING PRESENCE, SHADOWY AND TORNADO LIKE. THIS YEAR, THE DUFFERS, PAUL DICHTER AND THE REST OF THE WRITERS, THEY WANTED SOMETHING MORE… DISGUSTING.
Paul: We got really excited about going forward and building the season around some of this kind of gross body horror Cronenberg stuff that we all secretly love, or not secretly.
Dan: STRANGER THINGS HAS ALWAYS BEEN INSPIRED BY FUN 1980’S SCI FI ADVENTURE MOVIES, LIKE STAR WARS AND THE GOONIES. BUT WITH EACH SEASON, THINGS HAVE BEEN GETTING DARKER IN HAWKINS. AND THE WRITERS GOING DEEPER INTO THE OTHER SIDE OF 1980’S SCI FI... HORROR.
THE WRITERS ARE ALL HUGE FANS OF BODY HORROR MOVIES LIKE INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS AND CRONENBERG’S THE FLY. BOTH STARRING JEFF GOLDBLUM, BY THE WAY.
ANOTHER BODY HORROR MOVIE THE WRITERS LOVE? JOHN CARPENTER’S THE THING. WHICH WAS A DIRECT INSPIRATION FOR VISUAL EFFECTS SUPERVISOR PAUL GRAFF WHEN HE WAS CREATING THE MIND FLAYER’S MONSTER.
Paul VFX: And we wanted to do something fleshy this year, and something with teeth, and wet, and heavy.
Dan: PAUL GRAFF IS THE ONE WHO MAKES SURE ALL THE ANIMATED WORK LOOKS GOOD. BUT IF YOU’RE THE MIND FLAYER, PAUL’S FAMILY...
Paul VFX: I’m kinda like the mind flayer’s uncle I was part of his inception, not the very idea of it, but the way he looks and developing it.
Dan: SO PAUL WORKED WITH HIS ILLUSTRATOR TO COME UP WITH SEVERAL OPTIONS FOR WHAT THE MIND FLAYER’S CREATURE COULD LOOK LIKE. ALL STEMMING FROM THE SAME QUESTION.
Paul VFX: So what would that look like if basically this Mind Flayer reincarnates itself in a creature that's much more like a dinosaur, or a deformed dinosaur, a Frankenstein's dinosaur?
Dan: ULTIMATELY, THE DUFFERS SETTLED ON WHAT THE KIDS END UP CALLING THE SPIDER MONSTER, BECAUSE IT ECHOED THE SAME SHAPE AS THE MIND FLAYER’S SHADOWY EXISTENCE LAST SEASON.
BUT LIKE DR FRANKENSTEIN’S MONSTER, THE MIND FLAYER’S MONSTER IS MADE UP OF A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT PARTS FROM A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE. WHICH DOESN’T ALWAYS MAKE FOR A SUPER ELEGANT MONSTER.
Paul VFX: It's not a well-designed creature. It's a thrown-together, nasty, weird body parts creature. So it should be limping. Maybe some of those limbs that you see are completely dysfunctional, and it's just dragging them behind him.
AND THE IDEA OF USING BODY PARTS TO CREATE A MONSTER ALSO HITS ON THE MAJOR THEME OF STRANGER THINGS THREE.
Kate: Puberty is disgusting and it's awful. And let's lean into that as much as we possibly can.
Dan: THIS IS WRITER KATE TREFRY AGAIN. SHE’S AWARE THIS IS A BIT ON THE NOSE, BUT WHEN SHE WAS THINKING ABOUT PUBERTY AND HOW IT RELATES TO HORROR, SHE KEPT COMING BACK TO THE TRANSFORMATION OF A CATERPILLAR INTO A BUTTERFLY. BUT NOT IN THE BEAUTIFUL HALLMARK WAY WE USUALLY TALK ABOUT.
Kate: I kind of always thought, I guess, they go in their cocoon and they grow wings, and then they come out. But that's not what happens at all. When a caterpillar builds its chrysalis, inside the chrysalis, the whole body dissolves into goo. And then the DNA gets rearranged into a completely different animal, and then that animal is what is reborn.
Dan: IN STRANGER THINGS THREE, THE GANG IS ENTERING THEIR TEENAGE YEARS, THEY’RE GETTING INTO THEIR COCOONS. AND WE’RE SEEING THEM IN THEIR MOMENTS OF DISINTEGRATION.
Kate: And the question is what is being built right now and who is building it? And what is going to emerge from this? So I think that season three is this sticky, gross, toothy, weird monster because it is that, it's that moment of everybody is kind of turned to jelly. And we're waiting on the edge of our seats to see what they become.
Dan: AND THE FIRST TIME WE SEE WHAT THE MONSTER BECOMES IS AT HAWKINS MEMORIAL HOSPITAL.
WHAT STARTS OFF AS NANCY AND JONATHAN GOING TO CHECK ON MRS DRISCOLL, THE LADY WITH THE CRAZY RAT IN HER BASEMENT, IT TURNS INTO ONE OF THE MOST TERRIFYING ACTION SEQUENCES OF THE SEASON.
NANCY AND JONATHAN END UP FIGHTING THEIR OLD SEXIST BOSSES FROM THE HAWKINS POST, TOM AND BRUCE.
Clip: We were hoping you might come back
Dan: IT’S CLEAR THEY’VE BOTH BECOME UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE MIND FLAYER.
Clip: Who’s blood is that?
Dan: NANCY AND JONATHAN DEFEND THEMSELVES BY ATTACKING TOM AND BRUCE WITH SCISSORS, VASES, FIRE EXTINGUISHERS, BASICALLY ANYTHING THEY CAN GET THEIR HANDS ON. AND THEY WIN, OR AT LEAST THEY THINK THEY DO, UNTIL TOM AND BRUCE’S BODIES START TWITCHING.
SINCE THEIR BODIES DIED, THEY’RE NO LONGER USEFUL, AND SO THE MIND FLAYER TAKES THEIR BODY PARTS, AND LIQUIFIES THEM, TURNING THEM INTO THIS RED, GELATINOUS GOOP THAT STARTS INCHING DOWN THE HALLWAY, TOWARDS ONE ANOTHER. UNTIL FINALLY, THE TWO BLOBS MEET AND COLLECT INTO ONE ANOTHER, BECOMING A GIANT, HORRIFYING MONSTER.
Clip: Scream
Natalia: It was the craziest night of filming,
Dan: THIS IS NATALIA DYER, AKA NANCY WHEELER, AND CHARLIE HEATON WHO PLAYS JONATHAN, HE’S HERE TOO…
Charlie: Yeah
Dan: SO FAR WHAT WE’VE DESCRIBED ABOUT THE MONSTER IS WHAT NANCY WHEELER IS SEEING IN THE HOSPITAL. BUT WHEN NATALIA AND CHARLIE WERE ON SET IN FRONT OF THIS NEWLY FORMED CREATURE, THEY’RE SEEING SOMETHING ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.
Natalia: And then here's this guy, oh, it's so amazing, in the middle of this hallway and this... You know those suits, those speed suits that cover your whole body? This red speed suit, this giant silver ball on his head, looking like, what's that mushroom from Mario, that little guy?
Dan: TOAD, THAT LIL MUSHROOM GUY’S NAME IS TOAD. BUT THE GUY WHO WAS WEARING THE SPEED SUIT?
Ken: Not a lot of people knew my name, but they knew me as bobblehead or red monster man.
Dan: RED MONSTER MAN IS KEN BAREFIELD. KEN IS THE ASSISTANT STUNT COORDINATOR ON STRANGER THINGS THREE. USUALLY HE’S A STUNT DOUBLE, BUT SOMETIMES, THE STUNT TEAM WORKS WITH THE VISUAL EFFECTS TEAM TO HELP OUT WITH CGI. LIKE WHEN ANDY SERKIS WORE THAT GREEN SUIT WHEN HE PLAYED GOLLUM IN LORD OF THE RINGS.
BUT THE MIND FLAYER ISN’T GOLLUM, SO THINGS ARE A LITTLE DIFFERENT. KEN HAD TO WEAR A RED SPANDEX SUIT WHEN HE WAS THE MONSTER . NOT BECAUSE KEN LOOKED SEXY IN RED, BUT BECAUSE RED WAS CLOSER TO THE MONSTER’S COLORING. SO IT’D BE EASIER TO ANIMATE.
AND THEN HE WORE THAT GIANT SILVER BALL ON HIS HEAD.
Ken: If you could just imagine a faceless motorcycle helmet. Make it three times larger than what it normally is. And reflective and silver.
Dan: SO KEN’S IN THIS RED SPANDEX SUIT AND CHROME HELMET ON SET, GETTIN’ READY TO REP THE MIND FLAYER’S NEW MONSTER.
Ken: No one really knew what I was going to do. All they thought that I was going to do was just literally be there for camera to have a reference.
Dan: BUT VISUAL EFFECTS COORDINATOR PAUL GRAFF? HE ASKED KEN TO REALLY PERFORM AS THE MONSTER. TO BRING ITS INTENSE ENERGY TO THE SCENE WHERE THE MONSTER STARTS CHASING NANCY THROUGH THE HOSPITAL.
Ken: And so I get lined up in the middle of the hallway, and it's the first take. And I just tell myself, I'm like, okay, if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it. And so they call action, they flicker the lights, they flicker the lights, and they push in on the camera. And then the lights come on, and I turn around, I just let out this giant roar.
Natalia: And he just looks up and screams. He's like, "Ah!" And it's right in the camera, and it's so... You're just... One of those moments, you're like, this is insane.
He's crashing into walls and doing all this amazing work. But it just looks so ridiculous when you're looking at it in real life.
Ken:They call cut, and there was a moment of silence for about two seconds. And then everyone started laughing and cheering. And I was like, okay, good. That worked. That worked out well.
Dan: THE MONSTER’S PHYSICALITY, THE WAY HE WALKS AND LOOKS, THAT CERTAINLY GAVE ME THE WILLIES. BUT EVERYONE KNOWS THAT THE THING THAT REALLY MAKES YOU JUMP OUT OF YOUR SEAT IN ANY SCARY MOVIE IS THE SOUND.
Craig: So you're always going for a feeling with whatever you sort of create as a sound designer. And the feeling for me, for this monster, this season, was to make him as gross as possible but also as large as possible, and threatening, and as aggressive as possible.
Dan: CRAIG HENIGHAN IS THE SUPERVISING SOUND EDITOR AND SOUND DESIGNER ON STRANGER THINGS. HE’S THE ONE WHO TAKES HIS OWN VOCAL PERFORMANCE AND MIXES IT WITH HORSE STAMPEDES, EARTHQUAKES, TIGERS, LIONS AND BLACK BEARS TO MAKE THE MONSTER SOUND LIKE THIS.
Clip: ROAR
Dan: BUT SOUND DESIGNING A MONSTER ISN’T JUST ABOUT THEIR ROARS. IT’S HOW THEIR WHOLE BODY SOUNDS.
LIKE WHEN NANCY RUNS INTO AN EMPTY ROOM AND LOCKS THE DOOR. WHICH, BY THE WAY, YOU NEVER RUN INTO A ROOM WHEN YOU’RE BEING CHASED, NANCY! ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU’RE RUNNING FROM A MONSTER WHO JUST MORPHED ITSELF FROM THE GROUND UP, DON’T YOU THINK IT CAN MORPH ITSELF BACK DOWN AGAIN?
OBVIOUSLY THAT’S WHAT IT DOES. AND THAT’S WHAT IT DOES HERE. IT MELTS DOWN AND GOES THROUGH THE GRATE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE DOOR, REBUILDING ITSELF ON THE OTHER SIDE.
AND IT STARTS WALKING TOWARDS NANCY.
Clip
Dan: CRAIG WANTED THE MONSTER’S WALK TO SOUND WET AND HEAVY. AND HE DIDN’T HAVE TO GO VERY FAR TO FIND INSPIRATION.
Craig: I have a nice little backyard, and there's one little section that doesn't have grass, it's all dirt. And luckily it was a bit of a rainy season this year when I was working on this series. And so I got my big rubber boots on, and just basically soaked down an area, and set up a couple of microphones. And I took out my laptop with QuickTime, and just basically looked at what he was doing visually and sort of performed it.
Dan: CRAIG DID HIS OWN LOW BUDGET RECREATION OF THE SCENE.
Craig: And then did a bunch of wild sounds. And I would just basically stick my foot in sort of a puddle that turned into sort of mud, and then I would slowly sort of release the foot.
Clip: Craig sloshing around in the mud
Dan: THAT RIGHT THERE IS THE ACTUAL RECORDING CRAIG CAPTURED IN HIS BACKYARD.
Craig: They sound pretty simple, because they kind of are. And sometimes those are the sounds that sort of work the best, because you're looking for a performance. And that's why we go out and record as many different sounds as we can.
Dan: AND CRAIG’S MUDDY STEPS BECAME THE MONSTER’S
Clip: Craig sloshing around in the mud
Dan: AND THERE YOU GO! THAT’S HOW WE GOT THE MOST VILE CREATURE TO EVER GRACE THE STRANGER THINGS UNIVERSE.
BUT WHAT DO YOU DO AFTER YOU MAKE A MONSTER? YOU DESTROY IT.
AFTER THE STRANGER THINGS GANG FIGHTS THE MONSTER IN THE HOSPITAL, THEY HEAD BACK TO HOPPER’S CABIN TO REGROUP AND STRATEGIZE. THEY START BY TRYING TO LOCATE BILLY.
QUICK RECAP: THE KIDS KNOW ABOUT BILLY. THEY KNOW HE’S BRINGING PEOPLE TO THE MIND FLAYER TO BE FLAYED AND ABSORBED INTO THIS HORRIBLE MONSTER.
SO THE KIDS FIGURE THEY GOTTA FIND WHERE THE MIND FLAYER’S HEADQUARTERS ARE IN ORDER TO STOP HIM. AND THAT STARTS WITH FINDING BILLY.
SO ELEVEN PUTS ON HER BLINDFOLD AND SEARCHES FOR HIM IN THE VOID. SHE FINDS HIM IN HIS ROOM, SITTING ALONE ON HIS BED.
Clip: And that’s not normal, right? … it’s a trap
Dan: IT’S A TRAP. SO RATHER THAN HEADING OVER TO BILLY’S HOUSE AND FALLING INTO THAT TRAP, ELEVEN COOKS UP AN ALTERNATIVE PLAN.
SHE’S GONNA GO BACK INTO THE VOID AND ENTER BILLY’S MEMORIES LIKE SHE DID WITH HER MOM LAST YEAR. IF SHE GOES INTO HIS MEMORIES, SHE SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIND THE SOURCE.
SO SHE SITS DOWN IN FRONT OF THE TV STATIC AND PUTS ON THAT BLINDFOLD AGAIN.
Clip: Billy can you hear me?
Dan:BILLY GRABS ONTO ELEVEN’S ARM AND WHEN HE LETS HER GO, SHE FALLS BACKWARDS INTO HIS MEMORIES.
SHE LANDS ON A SANDY BEACH IN CALIFORNIA. SHE SEES BILLY AS A LITTLE BOY, SURFING WHILE HIS MOM WATCHES PROUDLY.
Kate: It’s very eternal sunshine referencial.
Dan: THIS IS WRITER KATE TREFRY AGAIN. THE OTHER INFLUENTIAL MOVIE WAS THE CELL. IT’S A SCI-FI HORROR MOVIE FROM THE YEAR 2000, BUT THIS ONE ISN’T ABOUT GROSS BODY STUFF. INSTEAD, IN THE CELL, J LO PLAYS A DOCTOR WHO GOES INSIDE THE MIND OF A SERIAL KILLER. AND KATE AND THE WRITERS, THEY WANTED TO UTILIZE THAT SAME TOOL OF ACTUALLY GOING INTO SOMEONE’S MIND IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND WHY THEY ACT THE WAY THEY DO.
SO FOR ELEVEN IN THIS MEMORY CLOUD, SHE’S SEEING BILLY AS A LITTLE BOY, WHO’S DAD WAS ABUSIVE AND WHOSE MOM LEFT HIM. SHE’S NOT JUST SEEING BILLY AS MAX’S BULLY OF A BIG BROTHER.
Kate: We got to take a step further and be like, where does that come from? Not just that he’s this bad dude, but that he’s a product of his environment and that he perpetuates that.
Dan: WHEN ELEVEN’S WALKING THROUGH THESE MEMORIES, SHE FINDS THE SOURCE
Clip:; Brimborn’s. Steelworks.
Dan: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, SHE TAKES OFF HER BLINDFOLD, EXPECTING TO BE BACK IN THE CABIN WITH MIKE AND HER FRIENDS.
Clip
Dan: AND SHE IS IN HOPPER’S CABIN, BUT HER FRIENDS, THEY’RE NOT THERE. SHE’S SOMEHOW IN BETWEEN THE UPSIDE DOWN AND OUR WORLD…
Clip
Dan: BILLY WALKS INTO THE ROOM, BUT WITH A DEEPER VOICE. CAUSE IT’S NOT REALLY BILLY, IT’S THE MIND FLAYER TALKING THROUGH BILLY. HE TELLS HER THAT SHE’S MADE A BIG MISTAKE GOING INTO BILLY’S MIND.
Clip: Because now I can see you.
Dan: BUT SEEING INTO BILLY’S PAINFUL PAST, THAT’S WHAT ENDS UP SAVING HER.
Ross: We couldn't do another ending where it's just Eleven at the end, just holding out her hand and vanquishing this thing.
Dan: IN THE EARLY DAYS OF WRITING STRANGER THINGS THREE, ROSS DUFFER AND HIS BROTHER MATT, THEY KNEW THAT ELEVEN WOULD LOSE HER POWERS. SO INSTEAD OF HAVING ELEVEN COME IN AND FIGHT THE MONSTER AND SAVE HER FRIENDS AGAIN, SHE LOSES HER POWERS AT THE MALL, RIGHT BEFORE THE MONSTER SHOWS UP.
Matt: So you're always looking for, how do you shake things up, how do you make things more challenging? And it becomes difficult for us as writers. That's good. It's challenging. We have to figure a way out of this situation, just like the characters have to figure a way out of the situation. That sort of naturally led to the Billy moment. That moment was not always planned in that way. He was always going to die, but we didn't know how.
Dan:THE WRITERS THREW ALL KINDS OF MONSTER TAKE DOWN IDEAS AGAINST THE WALL.
Kate: There was a pitch that lived for a long time that the kids would load up the family truckster, the giant horrible station wagon, new car that Karen has, with fireworks and drive it off the edge of the balcony, and explode the Mind Flayer using this car. It's this literal suburban icon crashing into this Lovecraftian monster. And I was like, it's fucking sweet. We've got to do it. And we were going to do it for awhile, and then no, that didn't... That was too crazy, and also not narratively tied to anything except for Fourth of July... explosions!
THEY KEPT THE FIREWORKS EXPLOSION IDEA, BUT THEY DIALED IT DOWN A BIT. INSTEAD OF DRIVING A CAR FULL OF EXPLOSIVES INTO THE MALL, THE KIDS WOULD LIGHT FIREWORKS AND THROW THEM OFF THE BALCONY AT THE MONSTER. BUT THE EXPLOSIONS DON’T DO ENOUGH DAMAGE, AND THE KIDS STARTING RUNNING LOW ON AMMO.
Kate: that’s when we realized that that window into his humanity would be the only way to side-step the mind flayer’s grip.
Dan:KATE AND THE WRITERS DECIDED TO HAVE ELEVEN TALK TO BILLY ABOUT WHAT SHE SAW IN THE MEMORY CLOUD, TRYING TO COAX HIM OUT OF THE MIND FLAYER’S CONTROL.
Clip: Scene tape
Ross: Bringing that up and reminding them of that innocent person that he used to be, that reminder allows him, at least for however long, if it's 15 or 20 seconds, to sort of protect her. And that's really all he needs to do in order to save Eleven in that moment.
Dan: WE SEE THE VEINS RETREATING FROM BILLY’S FACE. AS HE BECOMES BILLY AGAIN.
Clip: Scene tape
Dan: FOR DACRE MONTGOMERY, WHO PLAYS BILLY, IT WAS AN INTENSE SCENE TO SHOOT.
Dacre: We shot that scene over three days, and we both lost our voice. Because every time the take, well, prior to the take rolling, we would just scream at each other, and scream, and scream, and scream until we cried. And I think it was very emotional, because that was also... We shoot predominantly chronologically in the two episode order. So that was also my last day on set. So it was very emotional.
Ross: We, I think, maybe did two takes, two or three takes. I think Millie nailed it on take two. And then you don't want to mess with it anymore and you walk away from it.
Clip: Eleven and the flashbacks
Dan: BILLY STANDS UP AND FIGHTS BACK, PROTECTING ELEVEN FROM THE MONSTER.
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Dan: THE MONSTER PICKS HIM UP AND USES ITS TENTACLES TO KILL BILLY.
RIGHT IN FRONT OF ELEVEN AND MAX.
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Dan: ELEVEN’S WITNESSED A LOT OF HORRIBLE THINGS IN HER SHORT LIFE, BUT BILLY’S DEATH IS ESPECIALLY COMPLICATED AND PAINFUL FOR HER.
Kate: Eleven's journey with Billy in season three is... She has a privileged, she has all of this privileged access to him because she gets in his actual head and sees the side of him that no one else has ever been able to see. And I think that in doing that, she mourns Billy differently than anyone else. Because she's really mourning the death of this child that she met on the beach. And I think that that is intense.
Dan: AND BY FIGHTING BACK, BILLY’S ABLE TO DISTRACT THE MIND FLAYER’S MONSTER JUST LONG ENOUGH FOR JOYCE TO TURN THE KEYS IN THE RUSSIAN LAB AND CLOSE THE GATE. CUTTING OFF THE MIND FLAYER’S BRAIN FROM HIS CREATURE’S BODY. THE MONSTER STUMBLES AROUND THE ATRIUM IN STARCOURT MALL BEFORE IT CRASHES TO THE GROUND AND DIES.
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Dan: THE US ARMY SWOOPS IN TO CLEAN UP THE MESS. AND SINCE HOPPER DIDN’T MAKE IT OUT OF THE LAB, JOYCE TAKES IN ELEVEN AS HER OWN. ELEVEN’S STILL NOT ABLE TO USE HER POWERS, BUT SHE AT LEAST HAS A LOVING NEW FAMILY NOW. AND THE BYERS, THEY’RE MOVING OUT OF HAWKINS. THE SEASON ENDS WITH JOYCE CLOSING THE DOOR ON HER EMPTY HOUSE.
AT LEAST WE THINK THAT’S WHERE IT ENDS.
Clip: “the americans…”
Dan: THIS HAS BEEN BEHIND THE SCENES OF STRANGER THINGS THREE.
BEFORE WE GO, I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT WHILE YOU HEARD FROM QUITE A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THIS SHOW, IT’S JUST A SMIDGEN OF THE CAST AND CREW.
IF YOU INCLUDE ALL THE EXTRAS AND ASSISTANTS, THE PEOPLE ON THE FRINGE OF THE SHOW WHO STILL HAD A HAND IN IT, IT TAKES OVER A THOUSAND PEOPLE TO MAKE STRANGER THINGS.
SO NEXT TIME YOU PUT ON AN EPISODE, MAYBE HIT THAT “WATCH CREDITS” BUTTON. LOOK AT ALL THOSE NAMES ON THE SCREEN. THINK ABOUT WHAT IT IS THEY DO DAY AFTER DAY TO MAKE THIS SHOW YOU LOVE. IT’S PRETTY INCREDIBLE. SO THANK YOU, TO EVERYONE WHO WORKS ON STRANGER THINGS.
AND THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO MAKES THIS SHOW.
RAE VOTTA, IS OUR EXECUTIVE PRODUCER AT NETFLIX.
MAX LINSKY, JENNA WEISS-BERMAN AND BARI FINKEL ARE OUR EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS AT PINEAPPLE STREET MEDIA.
BARI FINKEL ALSO PRODUCED AND WROTE THIS SHOW.
MELISSA SLAUGHTER IS OUR ASSOCIATE PRODUCER EXTRAORDINAIRE.
ANN HEPPERMANN IS OUR EDITOR.
OUR ENGINEER WHO SCORED, MIXED AND MASTERED THIS WHOLE THING IS HANNIS BROWN.
I’VE BEEN YOUR HOST, DAN TABERSKI.
SPECIAL THANKS TO DENISE GODOY FOR TAKING US ON A TOUR OF GWINNETT PLACE MALL. AND THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR LISTENING. MAKE SURE TO KEEP TELLING YOUR FRIENDS ABOUT IT. THERE WILL BE MORE EXCLUSIVE LOOKS INTO YOUR FAVORITE NETFLIX SERIES AND FILMS RIGHT HERE IN THIS FEED. SO STAY SUBSCRIBED. DON’T GO ANYWHERE.
Kate: We always wanted them to move, it actually was a much bigger part of the season initially. We had a whole plot line of like, Joyce trying to sell her house and like, people come to see the house but there’s holes in the wall from axe. And like, we got a few weeks in and we were like, is this boring? Is real estate boring? Maybe we should pivot.
Dan: AND THAT LADIES AND GENTLEMAN IS HOW YOU DO A POST CREDIT SCENE.