In the Grishaverse, relationships are complicated: sun versus shadow, Grisha versus non-Grisha, state versus border. And relationships -- whether romantic or platonic -- are just as complicated, if not more when small science is involved. We’ll hear from writers, directors, and the man behind the mayhem, actor Ben Barnes (General Kirigan), on how light and dark often live side by side. Plus, we’ll talk with sound designers Craig Henigan and Brad North about how they used their craft to highlight the differences between good and evil.
In the Grishaverse, relationships are complicated: sun versus shadow, Grisha versus non-Grisha, state versus border. And relationships -- whether romantic or platonic -- are just as complicated, if not more when small science is involved. We’ll hear from writers, directors, and the man behind the mayhem, actor Ben Barnes (General Kirigan), on how light and dark often live side by side. Plus, we’ll talk with sound designers Craig Henigan and Brad North about how they used their craft to highlight the differences between good and evil.
Ben Barnes:
Listen to this podcast at your peril because spoilers lie ahead. Make sure you've seen all the episodes of Shadow and Bone and welcome to the Grishaverse.
Brandon Jenkins:
This winter, I got to talk to author Leigh Bardugo about how ideas of belonging and fitting in play out in her work.
Leigh Bardugo:
Finding the people who allow you to be yourself, who don't tolerate you but celebrate you, is just a tremendous gift. This is a theme that I am really engaged in, who stands beside you? Who has your back in a fight? Who knows you best and loves you despite your faults? Who sees your strengths and supports them and amplifier them.
Brandon Jenkins:
And then we started talking about our favorite relationships in this series, Shadow and Bone. And when talking about romantic pairings or ships, it brought out another side of her. Can you talk to us about shipping and what it means to you?
Leigh Bardugo:
For me the ship is always about the slow burn. I want to be an agony before I get that first kiss. I'm one of those people that once the couple gets together, I'm like, "Am I interested in this anymore?" Yeah, it's bad but...
Brandon Jenkins:
Is there such a thing as a right pairing?
Leigh Bardugo:
I love a villain protagonist romance.
Matthias:
You look lovely by the way.
Nina:
You look like you needed saving.
Leigh Bardugo:
I love enemies to lovers, that's another trope that I can't get enough of.
Nina:
Oh, this isn't where I have my way with you.
Matthias:
I can't wait to be back in my own bed.
Nina:
Yeah, I can feel just how much you hate sleeping next to me.
Leigh Bardugo:
Speaking of tropes, the childhood friends thing was definitely at the root of that.
Alina Starkov:
I knew it would happen if I somehow passed that test, they would have taken me away.
Mal Orestev:
To a palace Alina.
Jessie Mei-Li:
They would've split us up.
Mal Orestev:
I'm trying to get back to you this whole time.
Leigh Bardugo:
That is the way I write my stories, and that is the way that I want the show to play out. I want the audience to be screaming for two characters to kiss before they actually kiss.
Brandon Jenkins:
Welcome to Behind The Scenes. This season, we're going deep into the world, characters and locations of Shadow and Bone, the new Netflix fantasy adventure series, based on the novels by Leigh Bardugo. This episode is all about relationships, the eternal human quest for a connection and how scary it is to seek it out.
Brandon Jenkins:
Like Leigh and I were talking about She knows just what she's doing when she's torturing you.
Leigh Bardugo:
I'm bad. I've done a lot about things. Now, there's a lot of subtleties in conveying romance on screen.
Brandon Jenkins:
Quiet moments behind the scenes.
Craig Henighan:
The sound is one of these arts and crafts that oftentimes are subtle. Oftentimes we don't want to be calling attention to ourselves.
Brandon Jenkins:
What is said.
Leigh Bardugo:
There's the words he uses and then there are his actions.
Brandon Jenkins:
And what is unsaid.
Archie Renaux:
It's one of those annoying things, if someone doesn't text you back, you're like, "Okay, well, they're done with me. They've moved on and that's that."
Brandon Jenkins:
In this episode, we're going to focus on Alina's relationships with General Kirigan and with Mal, her best friend. And we'll see through the ups and downs of these connections Alina learns just how powerful she really is. I'm your host Brandon Jenkins, let's get started.
Ben Barnes:
I've been asked how General Kirigan is like for myself. I obviously am a magical shadow general very much like my character that much I think is clear. All powerful, certainly sounds like me, revered.
Brandon Jenkins:
Ben Barnes plays General Kirigan. The most powerful Grisha, mysterious, handsome, and the man who might have all the answers for Alina. Who might be her Grisha other half, if he can be trusted. Ben was kind of an obvious pick for the role of General Kirigan, AKA the Shadow Summoner. He's occupied a unique position among actors since starring as Prince Caspian in the Narnia movies.
Ben Barnes:
I've sort of had an extraordinary journey since the Narnia days in terms of people being very, very supportive and kind and fan casting me as it were on the internet in various different, um, fiction roles.
Brandon Jenkins:
Fan casting is basically when fans publicly declare who they want to be cast as a character and it can get serious. So getting Ben was a big deal and when Ben was asked if he was interested in the role, he started to do some research into Leigh Bardugo.
Ben Barnes:
And one of the first things I found was some tweets, I think from about 10 years before where the author had mentioned me in a tweet in relation to this particular character. And I thought, wow, that's kismet if ever I've seen it.
Brandon Jenkins:
Ben Barnes looks the part of Kirigan, but he also has a deep understanding of epic stories.
Ben Barnes:
I actually did final year college exams referencing Harry Potter and Lord of The Rings and his dark materials and all these extraordinary works of literature that were sort of skewed towards younger people. And so I was quite well-versed in stories of quest and pursuit of dreams and goals and protagonists that are usually of a certain coming of age moment in their lives.
Brandon Jenkins:
Okay. So the very guy that book fans want to play Kirigan, also studied quest stories. I'm mean it's kind of serendipitous, right?
Ben Barnes:
Just a bit of a word geek. I think, I think words, lyrics are really important to me and that's a part of this process that I really love. And so I'm really proud if I figure out a way to make a line work even if you're just changing one word to figure out a way that that line could have more power or more depth.
Brandon Jenkins:
The fan casters are right. Ben is a great Kirigan, but I think what Ben's fans are really picking up on is the fact that Ben Barnes were like your roommate. He would be really good at coming up with the perfect thing to text your crush. And so when Ben picked up the books, he quickly noticed a major theme in his character's very long life.
Ben Barnes:
I think in the case of General Kirigan, this is someone who has struggled over centuries with loneliness and loss.
Brandon Jenkins:
And then as an all great love stories, Kirigan meets possibly the only other person like him.
Ben Barnes:
What are you?
Jessie Mei-Li:
Alina Starkov, cartographer, Royal Course of Heirs.
Brandon Jenkins:
Alina Starkov, cartographer and newly discovered Sun Summoner, our shows hero. We talked about Alina and who she is in episode one. Remember Alina also feels alone in the world, she doesn't fit in anywhere.
Jessie Mei-Li:
She's wary and skittish when we first meet her. And she doesn't like to make eye contact and all these little things that I think build you, these sort of like delicate shades of who she is, rather than just being like, "Bam, I'm an outsider, you know, I'm different. No one understands me." I wanted it to be in everything she did and every relationship she had.
Brandon Jenkins:
When they first meet after her Grisha power is revealed. Kirigan is overwhelming.
General Kirigan :
Lift up your sleeve.
Alina Starkov:
What's happening?
General Kirigan:
Your sleeve.
Jessie Mei-Li:
And when Kirigan touches Alina for the first time, my understanding of it was that, she could feel his power and he could feel hers.
Ben Barnes:
And so to find someone who he genuinely believes has the potential to be his equal, I think somewhat unsettles him. And she represents literally the light, the literal light at the end of the tunnel for him potentially.
Jessie Mei-Li:
When the light actually comes out of the Alina's arm, we had this... for lack of a better word, it was almost like a lightsaber that was just coming next to my arm, that this now it's this shooting beam of light.
Brandon Jenkins:
That shooting beam of light is Alina's Grisha power and Kirigan is the first person to recognize it for what it is, a complement to his power. She's light, he's shadow, a powerful expression of finding the only other person in the world like you. It's a magical feeling we may recognize, but these people are magic magic and the audience has to feel it.
Craig Henighan:
We don't want it to be too twinkly, I guess, for lack of a better way to describe it, that real classic magic sound. But at the same time, you also need something that evokes what people will understand as magic.
Brandon Jenkins:
This is Craig Henighan, sound designer. He's responsible for making the sounds of magic from Kirigan and Alina. Craig wanted something from the natural world to reflect how the Grisha think of their powers.
Alina Starkov:
Despite Genya's magic I didn't-
General Kirigan:
Not magic, science or rather small science. We did not conjure from nothing we manipulate that which already exists and runs.
Brandon Jenkins:
So Craig looked to manipulate a material already around us, like water.
Craig Henighan:
If you take a... basically a hose with a jet nozzle on it, a nozzle that you'd wash your car and then you stuff it in the corner of a swimming pool and you turn it and turn it around so the water's churning, that actually is a pretty big element in Alina's powers. You'd have to really ID it, but then I thin it out a little bit. So I take the low end out of it and then we put a layer of sort of twinkly stuff on top of it or in the middle of it. And then when I add a little bit of different sort special sauce to it, it can become this whole other sound that evokes a natural magic.
Brandon Jenkins:
To create the sound of Kirigan's power, Craig pulled from other parts of the natural world.
Craig Henighan:
A lot of it is winds. When I say winds, I don't mean regular winds. I'm talking about winds that are recorded from like a door being cracked open, for instance, like a wind, like a draft you know or a buffeting wind. Kirigan's world is heaviness and darkness and the other part of his creeping darkness, these lava flowing sounds. When you play that really subtly and you add a little bit of movement or maybe you flange it a little bit or you add a little phaser to it and stuff, you can kind of get it to creep along the sides of the walls because that's what it's doing visually, but it's not calling attention to itself.
Brandon Jenkins:
So that's the moment where these two lonely souls meet each other. It's as if they're two halves of a whole for Kirigan.
Ben Barnes:
I think that in all stories, particularly ones which involve power, magic and skill sets that are representative of what's inside, you have to start with those metaphors, Kirigan's power is to manipulate the dark and the Alina's power is to manipulate the light. And so straight away you understand that she is the yang to his yin, or she's the yin to his yang actually. And they realize that there is something in the other that they recognize in themselves.
Brandon Jenkins:
And you can see that this recognition is a huge change for Alina.
General Kirigan:
What do you see?
Alina Starkov:
Someone's version of me.
General Kirigan:
Or perhaps the real you is finally emerged.
Leigh Bardugo:
It was really important for me that we established that she is just completely entranced by this person who frightens her and is dangerous, but also is seeing her.
Brandon Jenkins:
Now that Alina has been proven to be the Sun Summoner, she's taken to the little palace to be with the Grisha and learned to use her powers, but she's an outsider.
Palace Girl:
Such an honor to formally meet you.
Palace Girl 2:
You stink of the orphanage, half-breed.
Brandon Jenkins:
The only person she can trust is Mal who she's constantly writing letters to.
Alina Starkov:
I wish you were here. If you were, it wouldn't feel so overwhelming. I'm dreaming about that stag again, I know you'd laugh, tell me it's just a fable. But then again, so is the Sun Summoner and yet here I am.
Brandon Jenkins :
Mal is also writing to Alina, but the letters never reach each other.
Mal Orestev:
Truth is when you lit up Kirigan's tent, there was a sound. A high tone. I knew it was you. When we were kids, you'd hold my hand and sometimes I'd hear it in the back of my head.
Brandon Jenkins:
Kirigan is intercepting their letters. So Alina has to rely on him as a confidant. Without Mal, Kirigan seems like the only one who understands her and at first Kirigan's her only resource to access her powers. This was another romantic trope that Leigh Bardugo wanted to investigate.
Leigh Bardugo:
I frequently see this kind of trope of the older, more powerful, more dangerous man and the young woman. And it being this thrilling trope that we like, that's sexy and exciting. But I wanted to really ask what was behind that and to give Alina the opportunity to throw that off and make her own choices.
Brandon Jenkins:
From Alina's point of view, Kirigan is the only one who gets her, who sees her, and she has a purpose with him. He's also her conduit to using her power. It's a new and exciting feeling and that's attractive.
General Kirigan:
I have been fighting this war alone for so long. I've buried so many good soldiers, friends. The coffers are running dry. The noose tightens and our own people are turning against Grisha just as they came on stand.
Alina Starkov:
You are not alone.
General Kirigan:
I've been waiting a long time for you.
Alina Starkov:
I should go
Jessie Mei-Li:
When things do turn romantic, when they kiss for the first time, it could very well have been Alina not knowing what she's doing. And a lot obviously we do eventually understand that Kirigan is the villain here. In those moments we don't know that, she doesn't know that. And it was really important that Alina is his equal at this point, she makes the choices and she makes the first move. It was important for me that Alina didn't come across as some blushing virgin you knowwho's, "Oh, no, I'm being taken against my will or something." I really wanted this to be like a healthy choice, she wants to do it.
Brandon Jenkins:
The attraction is happening on multiple levels, sure. There's your classic only you understand me, but also Alina has to rely on Kirigan to bring out her sun summoning powers, he's her amplifier. Small science 101, usually an amplifier comes from part of a magical animal. If you kill or somehow harness the animals power, then it gets transferred to you. We'll get more into that a little later, but a person can also amplify power through touch and that's what happens between Kirigan and Alina.
Jessie Mei-Li:
You know, the way I saw it was that, when Kirigan touches Alina as an amplifier he amplifies her powers and makes her use her powers in this extraordinary way. It's like a drug to her, it's a good feeling.
Brandon Jenkins:
A drug? Is that feeling coming from being near Kirigan or being able to finally unleash her Grisha power? At first it's all the same, but then a new character appears, Baghra.
Baghra:
Bring the light.
Mairzee Almas:
Well, Baghra is the instructor. She's a hard drill sergeant that is tasked with getting Alina up to speed.
Brandon Jenkins:
Mairzee Almas directed the scenes with Baghra and Alina in episode five.
Mairzee Almas:
When their relationship first starts, we are to believe that Baghra has to bring Alina up from nothing because Alina did not live in the little palace and she didn't grow up with the other Grisha. So she's behind the eight ball to start. She had been undiscovered all of her childhood, so she's already way behind everybody else. And so we think that this hard-ass Baghra is coming after her and try to bring her up to speed just because she's behind the eight ball.
Brandon Jenkins:
Yes, the whole point of having Alina at the little palace is not just romance it's to learn to use her power. For all the fantasy of this series, Grisha power isn't that different from getting good any skill in the real world. You can get good by working on it, but there's a temptation of a shortcut.
Alina Starkov:
I think I need an amplifier, something to boost my strength.
Baghra:
You can't light a door on your own. What would you amplify?
Alina Starkov:
That Kirigan touched me.
Baghra:
General Kirigan can't be a crutch forever. And the use of amplifies is about Baghra, lazy practice.
Alina Starkov:
You could at least try to be encouraging.
Brandon Jenkins:
But Baghra is all about hard work and practice.
Baghra:
Okay. Let's get on with it. Hands out, palms face each other. Light, again!
Alina Starkov:
Stop it.
Baghra:
I'll stop when you start, you're not sleeping enough. Not enough, not nearly enough.
Leigh Bardugo:
Is easy to look at Baghra as an archetype, you know she's the grumpy mentor. She's the witch in the woods, but she is also a mother.
Brandon Jenkins:
More specifically, Kirigan's mother.
Mairzee Almas:
Baghra's real reason for being so hard on Alina is because she recognizes Alina's talent and skill and understands what her future is going to be and how her son Kirigan is going to weaponize Alina.
Brandon Jenkins:
Weaponize Alina, that's intense. Right? Well, Baghra knows that Kirigan has ulterior motives before Alina does.
Mairzee Almas:
So she is somebody that's very grounded and her character would be inspired by witches and somebody who is able to master the elements around her and if her son is eternal, imagine how old she is and how powerful she is.
Brandon Jenkins:
And once she learns that Kirigan is close to finding the Morozova stag from Alina's dreams, Baghra has to take action.
Mairzee Almas:
She understands, of course, if Kirigan gets the stag amplifier then all hope is lost. He will be unstoppable. So she has this one thing she can do is try to get rid of the trackers so the stag can't be found, and get rid of Alina.
Brandon Jenkins:
That tracker is Mal. Kirigan, will use a stag amplifier for his own ends. Baghra doesn't know how exactly, she just knows Alina is in danger.
Baghra:
And you never stood a chance. Do you think this was just about you? He's been obsessed with power, with hunting, all of Morozova's creatures. You nearly gave him the stag and I'm telling you, you must hide.
Alina Starkov:
I won't help him. I'll fight back.
Baghra:
You're far from strong enough to face him. I thought I had more time to prepare you, but I'll have to wait.
Brandon Jenkins:
Mal track the stag down as a way to get back to Alina. His army unit thinks it's ridiculous. They think Kirigan's lost his mind. It's a fairytale creature, but Mal believes in Alina.
Mal Orestev:
Dear Alina. This may be my last letter to you. This stag has some connection to you. I don't know how or why, but if tracking it down for your general was what will reunite us. Then I'll see you soon.
Leigh Bardugo:
We wanted to stab you in the heart.
Brandon Jenkins:
I felt it.
Leigh Bardugo:
You know while Mal is off losing his friends and bleeding in the snow, Alina knows none of that. And so she is being led down this different path, this path of wealth and privilege and power and those things are so appealing. They're so seductive and he's doing everything he can to get back to you and to help you, and you have no idea. So I hope it makes everybody utterly miserable.
Brandon Jenkins:
I mean yeah. I had the moment where I was watching and I was like, "Ah, dying in the cold versus..." I'm like, "I bet silk feels nice like you know...." Kirigan, won't let Mal see Alina just like he intercepted their letters to each other. Archie Renaux plays Mal.
Archie Renaux:
It's one of the annoying things, especially with the letters not reaching each other and naturally you know if someone doesn't text you back, you're like, "Okay, well, they're done with me. They moved on that's that" and that's it, that happens.
Mal Orestev:
Dear, Alina, weeks gone and still no word from you. This is my third letter.
Archie Renaux:
And Mal it's like, "What's going on? She's been taken away from me and she's forgotten all about me." And it's quite sad.
Leigh Bardugo:
These are two people, who have been surviving with each other's help for a very long time and who have learned to rely on each other in a world that does not value them, and frequently treats them cruelly and who will truly do anything for each other. And that bond is both beautiful and poisonous
because um you know Alina is dependent on that. Mal is dependent on that, and they both need to have it severed in order to come back to each other.
Brandon Jenkins:
But to be honest, Mal or specifically her fear of losing Mal is why Alina ignored her Grisha hood for most of her life.
Shelley Meals:
Mal is this constant. But while she's at the little palace, she has to recognize and acknowledge that she's been suppressing her power for Mal and is that the healthy thing to do?
Brandon Jenkins:
For Shelley Meals, writer and co-executive producer. The Alina Mal relationship is at the heart of Alina's story arc.
Shelley Meals:
Only after she acknowledges that she able to let go and make that light bloom for herself. So there's a piece of really her trying to figure out or find that balance of like, "How can I be who I am supposed to be, but also have this relationship that I want."
Brandon Jenkins:
So when Alina sees Mal for the first time, she's nervous. He never responded to her letters. And now she's a living saint.
Mal Orestev:
Your powers don't scare me.
Alina Starkov:
Is it me then? Do I scare you?
Mal Orestev:
No, of course no. Why would you think that?
Shelley Meals:
Once they're reunited his priority is not to romance her, it's to support her, whatever she needs. So to me, that's a relationship built on respect. Alina, they are headed off in the woods to escape and Alina decides she wants to go after the stag, super dangerous.
Mal Orestev:
I found the stag. Kirigan's orders to track it came from your drawings. I thought you were showing me the way to you.
Alina Starkov:
He stole them from my journal, Baghra was telling the truth. He's been obsessed with finding it, it's the one amplifier that could rival his power if another Grisha find it.
Brandon Jenkins:
And Alina is that Grisha. The best way for Mal to support her is to help her find the stag before Kirigan does. He already found it once and now they're going to do it together. The show down in the woods over the stag is the ultimate test. Alina's magically connected to it. We see in flashbacks that for her whole life, she's been visited by the stag in her dreams and drawn pictures of it by day. Chasing down the stag means, accepting who she is. She wanted to embrace it, not kill it, but Kirigan does.
Alina Starkov:
What are you doing?
General Kirigan :
I'm going to places around your neck.
Alina Starkov:
I mean why? I didn't kill the stag, it's not my amplifier. He killed it. He gets its power.
General Kirigan:
You asked for this yourself when we met, to transfer your gift to someone who could use it.
Alina Starkov:
I can use it now.
Brandon Jenkins:
Kirigan is at his most manipulative here, even if he thinks he's being charming and romantic.
General Kirigan :
You know the only thing more powerful than you or me, the two of us together. Together we can end all wars.
Leigh Bardugo:
The question that I always wanted to pose for readers. And that I think is on full display in the show is there's the words he uses to manipulate situations and manipulate people. And then there are his actions, he can say we would be so powerful together. We will rule as equals. Well, if we were meant as equals, why would you put a collar around my neck and steal my power and force me to do mass murder?
Alina Starkov:
I don't understand, what...
Brandon Jenkins:
Now, if you're like me, the scene with the sound of the antlers binding to Alina's body, it was hard to watch. Because it's visceral not only for the emotional content that Lee is talking about but that sound.
Craig Henighan:
Generally with ground beef, you kind of want it to be half frozen. So it's got a little bit of a wetness thing to it.
Brandon Jenkins:
Craig Henighan, he made the sound of the antlers sinking in and he's telling us how to do it. Use ground beef, make sure it's thawing but there are other ingredients. My producer, Christine Driscoll chatted with him about it.
Craig Henighan:
Basically go to the grocery store and you get a few chickens and some meat and some ground up beef and record stuff and make squishy type weird sounds, right? So basically the specific sound of that is like a flesh- dissolving flesh sound. You take hot water and sort of put it in a cup and then I just poured a little bit of sugar into the hot water and it actually makes this fizzy dissolve, but it doesn't make a dissolve sound the way like an alka seltzer tablet would, it actually makes more of a dull science experiment type bubbling sort of sound. Giving all my secrets away, come on.
Christine Driscoll:
I know, I do want to give people the project of dissolve some sugar and slap ground beef.
Craig Henighan:
Right, right, right, right.
Brandon Jenkins:
The scene was originally even more intense. Craig works with Brad North. Brad puts all the sound effects and music and breathing in the final sound mix.
Brad North :
During that scene with the antlers sinking into her shoulders and chest, you've got the fleshy stuff and then you've got the magical stuff. And then you've got the music and then you've got her breaths and efforts.
Christine Driscoll:
It's a very breathy moment, actually I remember.
Craig Henighan:
It is and we actually, we reduced it some because it used to be a little bit more painful and it was the wrong way to go.
Brandon Jenkins:
When Alina confronts Kirigan over how he used the Stag's antlers to take her power, we hear a very important line.
Alina Starkov:
You don't care who suffers, as long you win.
Ben Barnes:
Fine. Make me your villain. I like to think about each word in a sentence. And the first word is fine, which to me insinuates so much, if that's how you feel. If I have no more recourse in this, if this is the last thing I want to say, that's the word fine. And then make me your villain, is saying I'm not a villain but if you need one for this story, if you need someone to fight, if you want someone to represent the opposite of what you believe, then make me this villain. And I just thought that it was so interesting that it's not, "Fine I'm the villain or fine I'll be the villain." It's make me your villain. If you want to fabricate that I'm the bad guy in this. Go ahead. I don't care. It doesn't matter to me what people think of me. I've been alive for hundreds of years and I've been called much worse.
Brandon Jenkins:
When Ben breaks it down, you can hear that in a lot of ways, it's Kirigan's last effort to use their shared loneliness to manipulate her. This time Alina isn't falling for it. Not only does she know who Kirigan really is, she's not lonely anymore. She knows that Mal has her back, that she can be home with him and still be the Sun Summoner. She's not making Kirigan a villain. He just is a villain. In the season finale, Alina sees the stag and understands that the relationship she has with herself is the most important.
General Kirigan :
It's just you and me now, Alina. And we are all we need anyway.
Alina Starkov:
You may have needed me, but I never needed you.
Leigh Bardugo:
We're seeing Alina truly understand who she is and her power. When there's that moment, when she drives the knife through his hand and she stands on her own and she claims the stag's power for her own. I mean, I just screamed in joy and triumph. I texted Eric when I was watching the episode. It was just like, yeah, it's like, it was so satisfying and cathartic and I just loved seeing Jesse in that moment.
Brandon Jenkins:
In the next episode, we'll go behind the scenes of that final battle where Alina and a few other friends you might recognize, take down Kirigan and we'll get into the backstory of the shadow fold and the threats that lurk there, the Volcra.
Ted Ra :
I'm fascinated by great white sharks. I always have been, it's a line in the original movie Jaws. This is a perfect eating machine.
Leigh Bardugo:
I have a deep abiding fear of sharks and I think that... the Fold now that I think about it is like a dark ocean wherein full of flying sharks.
Brandon Jenkins:
This is the Behind The Scenes Podcast, Shadow and Bone. Make sure to subscribe, rate and review this podcast so you don't miss a single episode. I'm your host, Brandon Jenkins, until next time.